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 A.v.M. - Aliens vs. Marines "Aliens Online" redux « View previous topic :: View next topic » 
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Tragos
PostPosted: Mon 09 Feb 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: A.v.M. - Aliens vs. Marines "Aliens Online" redux Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 468
Location: USA

A.V.M. - Aliens vs. Marines is a port of Aliens Online
www.tragos2d.com
_________________________________________

6/2/10
All of my time is being invested into spriting right now. I've finally made some headway and the results are looking good!

4/14/10
The most recent update's regarding AvM will now be hosted at my homepage. www.tragos2d.com I shall continue to post updates on this thread but expect the information be about a week or more behind on current events.

Features:
Authentic weapons via the USCM Tech manual.
New sprites from digitized models.
8 Original Maps, and 2 new maps.
All the original gameplay modes.
Improved sound effects.
New textures.

Playable characters:
Marines:
Rifleman
Com Tech
Medic
Smart gunner

Xenomorphs
Face Hugger
Warrior
Queen

Current Team:
Tragos
Project Manager / Mapping / Sprites / Textures.

MEW
Animation assistance and design advice .

Armando Elizondo
2d artwork and designs.

Eliwood
Weapon coding / Decorate.

Appreciate all the positive feedback so far.
_________________________________________
Related posts:
http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=285458
http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?p=5370643#post5370643
http://www.thehiveforum.net/forum/index.php/topic,7075.0.html
http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22280
http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?p=557019#post557019


***older infomration***
With the help of Liberation, my goal is to remake "aliens online" as accurately as possible. As of right now we plan to keep the six original levels stock. However it was decided there will be two versions of this project. One for Edge focusing on the best single player experience possible, along with a few new levels one of that being of my own creation. The other project will be using Zdoom, because it is my favorite source port for multiplayer. This may change should I find another port that better suits my needs.



SPRITES
I plan to re-create all the sprites found in aliens online. From the face hugger, all all the way up to including the Queen. I think even the Armored Personnel Carrier may show up! Liberation plans to use 3-d models in his project, but I'm going to try to convince him otherwise that sprites still can hold their own if properly utilized. The world hasn't seen DOOM like this yet!

Old:

New:


My original post is here:
http://edge.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=3196#3196


Queen sprite:




Alien Egg:



APC:
Unfortunately I don't think a sprite of this will do it justice. I'll be able to achieve the effect I want to from a distance, using a Sprite version of APC. But even with a high- resolution graphic, having it rotate when you're close to the vehicle will just be kind of weird in my opinion. So I do plan to make some sort of mock up 3-d version using slopes, and cleverly placed pusher objects thanks to the hexen level format. Or maybe I need to do some sort of invisible sliding escalator to make the vehicle appear to drive itself? All these technical things can be worked out in time. I could always use some friendly advice and input!


3d-Model
http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/329877

My first problem: SOLVED!
Though it is not my first real problem, it is the first has prevented me from moving on any further. How do you scale a sprite? For example up above, you can see that the first frame of the Queen alien is quite large. I shrank it down quite a bit so that would fit in this post, the final version is really detailed. Without a doubt she'll look very terrifying in the game! Let's say she's 285 x 349 and pixels, that is huge compared to the stamp sized sprites originally used in Doom. I'm using doom builder and XWE, two of the most commonly used tools. I need this graphic display properly so she is not stuck to the floor and the size of a mountain. I'm also just learning to use de-hack extensions with XWE so please bear with me, it's been quite a while since I've done anything with doom, so most of this is somewhat new to me again. I know edge supports most of these features, so please someone help me fix this so I may continue my work! Thanks in advance! Hopefully I won't be labeled a half-Noob!

2nd Issue

Opening a .raw sound file.
I recently just acquired the PC version of Aliens Trilogy, a game that I loved on the PlayStation. It would seem it did not make the transition to PC very well... The sprites look terrible, and all the color appears washed out. I was hoping to use this game as a source of more textures, but looks like I'll be unable to do so. However I was able to open up the file called SFX, which holds all the games sound files. I've attempted using audacity to import the .raw data. With no luck... Does anyone have experience with this rather old sound format? If I could successfully rip these sources, I would have some really nice authentic sounds for this aliens project!

3rd Issue HALF SOLVED!
Is there any possible way to include the "motion tracker"? Without it, some of the experience would be lost. Even if all it did was beep faster, when enemies got close. That would be enough... Did anyone play Beta Doom? I remember the auto map was part of the HUD, and the player's view was through the marines helmet.


Color Palette note:
If you save the textures as paletted PNG graphics rather than BMPs (or whatever you used) and then just stick them, unconverted, in the WAD between TX markers, GZDoom will show them using their own palette. That should get round both problems.

http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24118
___________________________________________________
[UPDATE] NOV.2009


Completed so far:
+Texture wad
+Xeno Warrior
+75% Colonial Marine weapons finished
+USS Conorado map 50%

Next to be completed:
-Sound .wad
-Finish AO level conversions
- High Res sprites[/b]
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My personal website, blog and home of my ventures in the study of game design.


Last edited by Tragos on Thu 03 Jun 2010 2:26 am; edited 49 times in total
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Liberation
PostPosted: Mon 09 Feb 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 338
Location: England

You can scale sprites in edge very easy by just using the scale=1.0; command but with zdoom im not sure.

BTW i must admit im suprised at how well those sprites look...
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Dartmerc
PostPosted: Mon 09 Feb 2009 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 570
Location: Sydney

Leave the sprites as large as possible (within reason), EDGE can scale them, and they'll look real nice. Obviously filesize is your only consideration, but this isn't 1994 anymore; most everyone can download most anything.

If you need any HUD or lua effects work I may be able to help, I say may, because as keen as I am I don't have a PC running EDGE atm. Will probably have access to one in the coming weeks/months. So basically it's reliant on your timeframe.

As for the APC issue - create (or google) a 3D model. Use the model for the EDGE release, and either make sprites or textures based off it for the zD release.
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Liberation
PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 338
Location: England

It would be cool if you could give a hand at some stage, i can only code the most basic of huds, it be nice to learn something.

The first level is coming along now i will post up some shots when i get a few more rooms done..

EDIT: a few screenshots of deck 1, still only basic mapping, no lighting etc.








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Tragos
PostPosted: Wed 11 Feb 2009 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 468
Location: USA

Fantastic!!! It looks just like AO!!! Great job Phill.
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Liberation
PostPosted: Wed 11 Feb 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 338
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well im trying my best with the mapping so we see how it goes, also with the motion tracker i do have a few ideas up mysleve, anyway i be online in a few hours from now so log on and we will have a chat.
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Dartmerc
PostPosted: Wed 11 Feb 2009 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 570
Location: Sydney

Explain the motion tracker - is it a visible map that displays the location of enemies?
There are a few ways to handle this, so really you can probably achieve something cool. Again, I can help with hud stuff, it's just a time frame issue at the moment.

Offtopic: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/11/sega-pits-aliens-vs-predator-on-360-ps3-in-early-2010/
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Tragos
PostPosted: Wed 11 Feb 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 468
Location: USA

No rush friend! It's done when its done... There is no deadline for this project... Whenever you can help is greatly appreciated!

The motion tracker sense's "moving objects" in front of you only. Non-moving objects or anything on the side, or behind you it doesn't sense. The beeps get louder and faster the closer an alien gets to you. Usually you barely have enough time to pull out your pulse rifle before your dead... Smile
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Dartmerc
PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb 2009 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 570
Location: Sydney

So audio, not visual?
hmm.. setting the scanner to be active ONLY on targets in front of you may complicate this a little (and personally, without having played the original game seems a little counter intuitive). But lets see what we can work a solution..

I'll apologies in advance for my less than technical/accurate terminology, it's been a while since I've seen a ddf.

    -Set the enemy to dummy attack during their movement state. Using a spawn type attack, we should be able to limit the effective distance and how many projectiles can be spawned simultaneously.
    -This projectile will need to home with 100% accuracy onto the player and be inert to lines and other creatures; interact with the player only.
    -Limit the spawn attack to one projectile at a time.
    -Set the player a new painstate for this projectile (100% pain chance).
    -If we want the simple solution and allow attacks from all directions to activate the scanner, we simply play a beep sound during this state.

    -Otherwise, we change some ammo variable and link a lua hud script to run on it.
    player.hurt_dir() returns the angle (in relation to the player's facing direction I believe) that the attack has come from, so we simple check if it's originated from within your fov, and if it has, play a beep sound.


So to sum it up, if the creature is distant, it spawns/fires this dummy projectile and can't create another until the first has hit you (and made a beep). The closer the creature gets, the more frequent it's attack will hit and be refired; the faster the beep.

The obvious failing is that the beep will not get louder as it gets faster, although I'm sure some messing around could achieve that.

Anyone else have a more elegant solution or see any flaws?
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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb 2009 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Sounds good to me! There is a visual aspect to the motion scanner, let me see if I can grab a screen of it... Though the sound effect alone is enough to instill fear. Now, the Zdoom version? LOL.... Pretty please? Thanks for your help!
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Dartmerc
PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
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zD I imagine would be simpler (as they have a robust script language to my knowledge), but unfortunately I can't help you with that.
Although when I get access to a PC and back into the flow of things, I'll probably have a play with it, I've got strange urges to build a multiplayer game - it's awesome to create new weapons in EDGE, but it would be even more awesome to use them against friends.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Quote:
"I've got strange urges to build a multiplayer game - it's awesome to create new weapons in EDGE, but it would be even more awesome to use them against friends.

I couldnt agree more! Twisted Evil
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Last edited by Tragos on Fri 13 Feb 2009 1:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 14 May 2007
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I was planing on using the automap showing all enemys and some nice visual effects.

The way you were saying about using dumby attacks, i tryed a few years ago to no succses, but that was a few years ago.

But will we see when the time comes. theres alot to do before hand anyway.
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Joppu
PostPosted: Sat 14 Feb 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Finland

Tragos wrote:

APC:
Unfortunately I don't think a sprite of this will do it justice. I'll be able to achieve the effect I want to from a distance, using a Sprite version of APC. But even with a high- resolution graphic, having it rotate when you're close to the vehicle will just be kind of weird in my opinion. So I do plan to make some sort of mock up 3-d version using slopes, and cleverly placed pusher objects thanks to the hexen level format. Or maybe I need to do some sort of invisible sliding escalator to make the vehicle appear to drive itself? All these technical things can be worked out in time. I could always use some friendly advice and input!


Why can't you use 3d models?
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Tragos
PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb 2009 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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I can use 3d models, though this was not my original intention for the project. As you can see above, I am attempting to create a sprite of the APC. The 3d models I have found are either untextured, or require me to purchase a program to view them. First of all, I don't see why it can't just be rendered within the engine itself, without the use of an outside model. Also, I want to restrict myself from using other artist's work as much as possible. This is a personal rule I've set for myself, because this is my hobby. Learning is part of what makes it fun, seeing my own creations live and react in a virtual world is very satisfying!

What I'm doing in my garage is faithfully resurrecting the method originally used to create the doom monsters. Digitizing 2d picture's of models/figures to create a pseudo 3-d effect has been used throughout the history of video games and pc games alike. You can look as far back as the arcade game Blasteroids if you like. One of my favorite arcade games btw...

Its not a question of I "CANT". In my opinion its the cheap and easy way out. Again, above I already said that a sprite wont cut if... At least for the close up shots. So I will save the sprite version for other effects whether I need it or not. Keep in mind, sprite's are handled better by doom. The sprite I'm working on for the Queen looks AMAZING! Even if I do say so myself, and will be much more terrifying than any quickly edited 3d model..... Even the model used for AVP2 is a little rough around the edges, for this project I will continue working on what I have started until finished. If you can do better than what I've currently shown off, please contribute! I will try to repay who-ever helps me the best I can. Fair enough? Oh, and one last thing... If you followed that post about the APC, just below the 2nd picture is a link to a 3d model. Rolling Eyes Sorry if parts of this rant came across a little harsh, but I don't think you thoroughly read my first post. I had thought what I wrote above accurately conveyed all my intentions, and plans for this project... Embarassed
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Dartmerc
PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
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I understood, but you've said a sprite wouldn't cut it - we've suggested the next best option, which is a 3D model.
Using sectors and whatnot to create pseudo 3D objects is not a great option if you're planning to move the thing, you're honestly going to get a better effect with a 3D model.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Sorry for being apprehensive... I've never worked with 3d models in doom before, nor was I impressed with the Eternity port which made use of Quake models, styled to resemble the original Doom Monsters...

I thought it was neat, but changed the feel too much for my tastes.
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Dartmerc
PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb 2009 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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For something that doesn't require much/any animation such as your APC, I think a 3D model would work well.
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Joppu
PostPosted: Wed 18 Feb 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 15 May 2007
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There would't be any visual difference between "3d apc" and "3d-floor apc".

3d-floor
-hard to make
-hard to move

3-model
-easy to make
-easy to move around

Just ask someone to model you low-poly a 3d apc. Heck, I could even texture it for you if you want. I realize that you are not going to use 3d models for your enemies and I was just pointing out that using models for static object like apc would be alot easier than messing with 3d-floors and whatnot. You are just being prejudiced.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Wed 18 Feb 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Quote:
You are just being prejudiced.

LOL... I'm just very frustrated the sprite couldn't live up to my expectations that I had for it. I have a few 3-d modeling programs, but lack the time needed to produce good results... I'm still learning....

One question though, when defining a set of rules or actions for a 3d model.... How is this handled by XWE? Or is this strictly a feature of Edge? I can't remember if Zdoom supports the Md1 or Md2 model format. If there is a tutorial for working with 3d models in DOOM, I'd like to read it! Or am I over analyzing this and making it seem harder than it really is?
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Dartmerc
PostPosted: Wed 18 Feb 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
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Your over analyzing.
As far as I know zD does not support 3D models.
If someone has the version of gom.wad I released, could you please upload it for Tragos; it contains MD2 weapons, looking at the ddf files for those should help you understand how models are implemented in EDGE (and xwe).

Quote:
There would't be any visual difference between "3d apc" and "3d-floor apc".


Oh and I vehemently disagree.
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Lobo
PostPosted: Thu 19 Feb 2009 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 09 May 2007
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He doesn't need GOM.wad: EDGE ships with example wads, one of which is MD2 model usage.

There is no tutorial for using models with Doom because every port does it it's own way. Remember it's a port-specific feature: Doom never had 3D models.
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Feb 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Tragos im got md2s down to tee for edge so dont worry to much, gzdoom supports md2's but it ball ache, zdoom dosent support them at all last time i checked.

And building stuff with 3d floors, slopes and normal sectors is also ball ache, 3d models are the way to go in most cases.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb 2009 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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I'll have to be creative with the Zdoom port then... Edge +1 in points so far! Smile
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Tragos
PostPosted: Sat 07 Mar 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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New warrior figure came today. I started a few test shots with him. Once the new chroma-key screen arrives I'll be able to produce the final version. I'm really impressed with the quality of this piece. It has a full skeletal system, with soft vinyl covering the figure. This results in there being no joint lines! GREAT! Next up is the face hugger, and Marines!



Also have a website in the works for this project, will be up hopefully in 2 weeks depending on school and work.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: USCM Marines Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Finally got the chroma key screen, still have issues with the lighting though. Have to build accurate helmets for the marines also still.
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Very nice
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Tragos
PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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This plastic screen SUCKS. It will un-wrinkle over time I suppose, I'm ordering a cloth fabric version next. Lighting is still an issue, but I'm working it out. This test shot in my opinion is terrible, I just really wanted to show off something! That way you can't take all the credit Phil. Very Happy When these sprites are actually finished they will shock and amaze!
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Karnizero
PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar 2009 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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You still have "problems" with those RAW sound files?

Maybe this is what you need:

http://audacity.sourceforge.net
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Tragos
PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



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lol I tried that program.... But I still have no clue what the hell i am doing.... When you rip the raw sound file, it's unsure how to decode it.... Usually I can only get loud static, or some really odd clicking sounds.....

help! Smile Perhaps I just need to know the right settings?
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