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 A.v.M. - Aliens vs. Marines "Aliens Online" redux « View previous topic :: View next topic » 
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Dartmerc
PostPosted: Mon 01 Mar 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/03/i-like-to-keep-this-handy-for-close-encounters/
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Tragos
PostPosted: Mon 01 Mar 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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I almost got that when they where still being pre-ordered... Then I decided that one recast for $90 was a much better bargain. Still haven't painted it yet. Before that new replica was on the scene, Pulse Rifles from defunct Prop companies where selling for between $2000 to $6500. I'd love to see the Smartgun and Flame thrower made next.


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NuKe
PostPosted: Tue 02 Mar 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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The replica looks good but, i think the L.E.D is on the wrong side hehe
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Tragos
PostPosted: Wed 17 Mar 2010 2:28 am    Post subject: Website Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Here it is, finally getting done.... None of the art is in place yet, but a good chunk of the information is at least complete. I tossed out the original html design, in favor of a premade blog style site.... I think it looks halfway decent, even if it is with minimal effort. Smile Anyone that likes raycasting, dos compilers, c++, should check it out.... It will also show off several of my abandoned projects, such as my ill faded Gmud. Smile Even a sneak peak of my much talked about sprite studio.


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PostPosted: Thu 18 Mar 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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I didnt realise your into c++, im learning that as a bit of a hobbie, would like to make a basic engine with dx9 at some point.

Anyway LINK??
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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 18 Mar 2010 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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www.tragos2d.com - Soon to be completed.

C++ is a hobby of mine as well. I've also used Visual basic to work on a 2d RPG, which will be discussed more on my site. I honestly believe you learn this better by teaching yourself, instead of paying for a teacher to oversea your mistakes. Smile
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Tragos
PostPosted: Mon 22 Mar 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: Title Sreen for AvM: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Designed by me, but drawn by Armando Elizondo. Who I've recently hired to help with some of the artwork for my project.


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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Well...... This just sucks..... Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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I lost my job today of 6 years.... This puts nearly all my plans on hold until I can secure my finances. I think I'll be alright, but it's a really scary feeling during these times.
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zZaRDoZz
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 10 Aug 2009
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Wow, that is a scary feeling. I've lost quite a few hours myself, I hope I don't lose my job. Sad

Good luck Tragos, keep your spirits up and know there's something out there for you.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Thanks man... I look at it like this, one door closes and several others open. I didn't like where I was very much anyway, I was being mistreated, while also killing myself for meager raises.... It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth but maybes it for the best.
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Karnizero
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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But you have the Slade, SLumpEd, XWE and Doom Builder automatic backups.

They Backup your job each time you "File>Save".

Gut luck.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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LOL Yeah and its very ANNOYING. How do you stop Doom Builder from doing that again? Smile
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Corbin
PostPosted: Fri 26 Mar 2010 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Tragos wrote:
Thanks man... I look at it like this, one door closes and several others open. I didn't like where I was very much anyway, I was being mistreated, while also killing myself for meager raises.... It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth but maybes it for the best.

That's how I feel about my job. You'll find another man, don't worry about it. Wink

Keep up the good work dude, if you need anything just let me know.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Chromakey test Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Early shot of my attempts at making sprites. I used a red background on this first test, I eventually found out that green works much better for the hue of the alien's. Keep in my mind this is low resolution shot's of WIP. I have not decided on a fixed resolution for any sprites, despite my initial hopes of using as high as 640x480 my hardware just cannot support it. Their is not much difference between using a 128x128 sprite versus a 320x240 version anyways. I also hoped to add extra details with the use of .png images, but I may convert all my sprites to 256 colors if they retain a majority of their details. Either way, the new graphics will definitely appear drastically better than the original found in Aliens Online. I believe part of the reason they where low res, was to keep the lag low. In 1998 I was still using a 28.8k modem! Smile
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Looking nice Tragos!! Very Happy
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Tragos
PostPosted: Sun 04 Apr 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: More sprites.... Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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As I get more involved with creating sprites, I realize how tiresome this can be... Now before I dive into creating 40+ frames for my characters, I'm trying to hit some sort of level of standard to my art before proceeding further. As you can see with yet another test sprite above, you can easily hide some of the bad pixels just by shrinking and sharping the image. Easy enough right?

Of course with my modern software and hardware just achieving doom quality sprites just won't cut it! I can do much better than what you see above, the point I'm trying to make is that I need to spend no more time than maybe 20-30 minutes per frame for this to be worth while. The above tank images took about 20 mins between the actual filming, and editing.... Next I will be trying my digital camera with chroma key effects. My concern over using the digital camera is the extra time it takes.... With video I can view my posed figures frame by frame and grab the animation at the right moment I need it. When taking single frames with a digital camera, the lens is more sensitive, not to mention I'll have to be spot on with the animation. One mistakes and I will have to start over...

Camcorder
+Quick
+Ease of use
+Lots of frames to pick from
-Lower quality sprites
Digital Camera
+High Quality sprites
-Longer editing time
-Less frames
-Harder to use because of sensitivity.

My target size for the sprites are 128x128 up to 320x240. With no sprite frame greater than 30kb, and the entire sprite file being no larger than 64mb total. If anyone has some tips about sprite creation they can share, I'm all ears! Smile I'd also like to see how my test sprite above looks rendered in D00M. Anyone is welcome to use the above image.



I'm starting to get better results... My backdrop didn't have enough light.... Trial and error,Trial and error,Trial and error.....
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Karnizero
PostPosted: Sun 04 Apr 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: More sprites.... Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 370
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Tragos wrote:
[IMAGES HERE]


As general tip to create sprites from real images with photography, you should better move the camera instead of the sprite.
First, use a tripod or any solid support. Then mark a circle around the sprite, in the floor/table. Trace the lines that will correspond to the positions where the camera will be positioned to create each face with a "squad" (I don't know it's name in English)
Because you have a tripod or solid support for your camera, the height will be always the same, and the rotations will be perfect due to the use of geometry.

If you move the sprite, as in that image, the result will not be the same because you can't know exactly the angle the sprite is facing to, and you can modify the distance to the camera while moving the sprite.

Tragos wrote:
As I get more involved with creating sprites, I realize how tiresome this can be... Now before I dive into creating 40+ frames for my characters, I'm trying to hit some sort of level of standard to my art before proceeding further. As you can see with yet another test sprite above, you can easily hide some of the bad pixels just by shrinking and sharping the image. Easy enough right?


To "hide" unwanted sprites, the best technique is cloning or pixel-by-pixel working.
I recommend you the first one, since the results are better, unless your drawing skills are good.

Because your sprite is tiny, the unwanted pixels are "hidden", but for greater sprites and images that technique is totally deprecated.

Tragos wrote:
Of course with my modern software and hardware just achieving doom quality sprites just won't cut it! I can do much better than what you see above, the point I'm trying to make is that I need to spend no more time than maybe 20-30 minutes per frame for this to be worth while. The above tank images took about 20 mins between the actual filming, and editing.... Next I will be trying my digital camera with chroma key effects. My concern over using the digital camera is the extra time it takes.... With video I can view my posed figures frame by frame and grab the animation at the right moment I need it. When taking single frames with a digital camera, the lens is more sensitive, not to mention I'll have to be spot on with the animation. One mistakes and I will have to start over...

Camcorder
+Quick
+Ease of use
+Lots of frames to pick from
-Lower quality sprites
Digital Camera
+High Quality sprites
-Longer editing time
-Less frames
-Harder to use because of sensitivity.

My target size for the sprites are 128x128 up to 320x240. With no sprite frame greater than 30kb, and the entire sprite file being no larger than 64mb total. If anyone has some tips about sprite creation they can share, I'm all ears! Smile I'd also like to see how my test sprite above looks rendered in D00M. Anyone is welcome to use the above image.



I'm starting to get better results... My backdrop didn't have enough light.... Trial and error,Trial and error,Trial and error.....


As general tip for "photo-to-sprite", you should:

1.- Study the sprite colours intensity. This is, is the sprite colours clear? dark? mixed?
2.- Use a neutral light place, preferable with indirect light, so you have a general light illuminating the whole sprite. DO NOT, use a lantern or any other similar light focus to illuminate the sprite. That result on adding unwanted shadows and shines. This is even worst for polished surfaces.
3.- Use a single colour background, without shadows, coloured lines, lights.... The background luminosity should be the opposite the luminosity the sprite's border. Explanation: if sprite's borders are clear, use a dark background, and vice versa. This is logical.

I recommend you to download Gimp and practice some advanced techniques. With some knowledge about that program you can achieve excellent results in no-time.

Anyway, if I can help you in any aspect, don't hesitate to ask me.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Mon 05 Apr 2010 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 468
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Wow, thanks for all the input Karnizero. I already have a tripod, and drew marker lines like you mentioned. Some of my problems are due to lighting, which I will work on. As I play around with this more, I'm gradually getting better. I'm pleased with my most recent attempt here, but I'm still striving for better quality. I will look into Gimp as well as the technique known as cloning.



My current crude routine is something like this:
1. Figure recorded with Green Screen
2. Frame grabbed from video.
3. Image loaded into Image Anaylzer.
4. Color 256 to closest Nearest color.
5. Make background white in Paint.
6. Re-sample image size with "pixel resize"
7. Touch up left over jaggies, or stray pixel.

Karnizero, do you know of any good bitmap editors? Other than Deluxe Paint and JASC Paint Shop Pro from the 3.1 era? Both of those programs have been used by developers to make some of the most famous sprites we know today...
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Tragos
PostPosted: Mon 05 Apr 2010 2:03 am    Post subject: Been busy.... Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 468
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Think I got it down now... How does it look? Next I need to work on more alien type poses for the actual animation...



So whats the verdict? Good enough? Or do I need more practice... Sad
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Karnizero
PostPosted: Mon 05 Apr 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 370
Location: España

Not bad at all. Looks better than the first ones, but I guess why you scale it down.

As for Bitmap Editors (I suppose you mean Graphics Editor) other than the both you mentioned there, you may choose Photoshop or Gimp.

I always used Gimp, so I can't give you any tip about any other.


Talking about your sprite, the Alien in such position looks like drunk hehehe.

I realize that your camera takes quite low quality photos.
If you don't have a professional camera, you can solve it if:

- do not use any zoom, i.e. 1xZoom
- don't take big resolution photos. It's better to take photos at 640x480 than 2500x1700 (or whatever).

Once you have taken your photos, don't scale the sprite down and/or up. It's better to keep the original size.

If you want the image to NOT TO LOOK like a real photo, but more like a original Doom Sprite, you may use the "PIXELATE" filter in your program (in Gimp that is "Filters>Blur>Pixelate").

You may set the image to have 256 Color with the Doom Palette, but this usually results on weird colours if the photo is colourful.
But for that alien, I think you may do it, since the main colours are in the range white-black only, with blue ink.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Mon 05 Apr 2010 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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The difference between "bitmap" editor versus modern graphics editor is: A bitmap editor is heavily oriented towards the bitmapped and bitplaned display modes. This especially is true for Deluxe paint, which nearly every game from the late 80's to mid 90's used.

Ahah! The "PIXELATE" filter! Thanks for jogging my memory, I remember that photoshop has that same function. I completely forgot about it until now. I like to edit images per pixel sometimes, which is something photoshop just isn't made for... Hence the reason I hardly use it. I find it somewhat pathetic that a camera from 2004 performs only slightly better than a camera from the 90's! I made sure to pick out camera's with high levels of Optical Zoom, not digital. I actually turned off the digital feature in my JVC camcorder. Considering the amount of time and patience it takes making sprites, I have a new found respect for any artist who did this back in the 90's. AVP on the jaguar is the best example I can think of. They digitized walls, props, and real actors using film that was then scanned from a slide for use within the game. This is why this game looked so bad ass back in 1994.


As for posing the Alien, the figure in my previous post above is one of two that are up to the task. I personally don't care for the legs or arms on this figure, they don't appear "ALIEN" enough for my tastes. I'd consider hacking up the figure a bit to improve it, but this particular figure is so rare I can't bring myself to do it. LOL
Far as I know the Real Action hero's medicom figure was the first real poseable alien figure. Underneath the figure's rubbery skin, is just a plane old Gi Joe soldier. Smile Thanks for you help Karnizero! I'll be trying GIMP later tonight. Since I don't feel like digging out my Alienware with photoshop.... Very Happy As for the palette, I'm not worried much since I plan on making Zdoom use my own palette. Is their a way to import your own extension into XWE? What I mean is, there are presets for games like Hexen, Doom, Jedit Knight, Quake, etc... All using their own palette. Can I add an extension for my Project: Avm? Complete with its own color palette.

Medicom figure? Arms and legs don't match though.... Is it just me or do they look a little feminine?



Hard to tell but my sprite has the same support in the foot. The limited frames of the queen also prove that the Hive playset Queen by Kenner was used for this sprite, as it has very limited articulation. They also seemed to have omitted the spikes on her back? The tail also must be custom, or taken from another keener figure. The stock figure's tail cannot be posed like in AO's sprite. Next I will be examining the marine sprites closer. I already made one mistake, they are 12 sided and not 8. I cannot confirm at this time if the Aliens are 8 sided or 12.
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PostPosted: Tue 06 Apr 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Is that Avp screenshot from the web or from a jaguar emu, coz i use project tempest to play avp and the sounds and graphics are abit dodge.

If anyone nows where i can get jagbag from plz let me know, for those that dont know jagbag was the best jag emu there was, but for some reason i cant find it no longer.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Tue 06 Apr 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Screens are from a real Jaguarr, sorry Lib. I've also noticed graphical glitches running AvP through project Tempest. I think a remember Jagbag, but it was a long time ago.
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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 08 Apr 2010 5:52 am    Post subject: Title Screen completed. Reply with quote



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Sneak peak of the finished title screen, without the logo at this time. Very happy with Armando's work, might I also add he is very affordable? I had to show it off here first since this is one of my favorite places on the web. Smile



Additionally I've completed a majority of my website, which I'm now comfortable showing off. While I'm not a pro in any specific area concerning my interests.... I do believe my presence on the web will help promote my talents as my abilities continue to improve and grow. Have a look!

http://www.tragos2d.viviti.com
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Karnizero
PostPosted: Thu 08 Apr 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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... and if you want use only sprites, but not models, for aliens, why you don't rip them out from a 3D Game, such as Alien vs Predator?

You can do it with any model viewer, and take screenshots.

And yes, Optical Zoom >>>> Digital Zoom

Good luck Smile
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Tragos
PostPosted: Thu 08 Apr 2010 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Quote:
... and if you want use only sprites, but not models, for aliens, why you don't rip them out from a 3D Game, such as Alien vs Predator?


Well, because anyone can do that... Unless the models where intended for spriting in the first place (think about Redneck Rampage) they just end up looking sloppy in my opinion. Now if I was as good as Agar I'd most likely be going this route. Part of my experience with this project is learning how digitizing real objects is a viable solution for creating graphics. The entire process involved in the creation of a raycasting engine/game fascinates me. The actual code, texture, sprites, and sound working together producing a simulated 3d world. I prefer to have a more hands on approach, and by making sprite's the old school way it give's me a glimpse of what iD and other developer's had to actually do themselves. They had to come up with innovative and clever solutions to some of the difficulties involved in creating a computer game. During that time, there was no books on the subject or schools like Full Sail offering video game design as a course...

There is "NO ONE" else I know of who is interested in creating sprites similar to the actual way iD did for D00M. It's just fun, even if my initial results have left me a little disappointed. I'm not against using 3d models turned into sprites, I just don't want to. Somewhere I once read that D00M has more lines of code and functions than most Operating systems, well at least during that time.... The most famous developer's of today got their start back in the 90's, by cloning their idea's and techniques in game design I hope to become a self made success much as they did themselves...

Some will disagree with me, but a high resolution image captured from a real world source will still look better than most graphics created through CGI alone. Unless we where talking about Avatar, but how many people have access to 35,000 processor cores for rendering? LOL

Because of the low entry price of stop motion, and unique "look" and "feel" on film stop-motion is popular among many hobbyists. The argument that the textures achieved with CGI cannot match the way real textures are captured by stop-motion also makes it valuable for a handful of movie makers, notably Tim Burton. Smile Stole this last bit from wikipedia, but I couldn't say it better mself or agree more.
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Karnizero
PostPosted: Fri 09 Apr 2010 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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Tragos wrote:
[...]

Somewhere I once read that D00M has more lines of code and functions than most Operating systems, well at least during that time....

[...]


Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Apr 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



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Avp's model viewer is a total basterd to use and it took me a few months to learn, also the background colour is black Mad
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Corbin
PostPosted: Fri 09 Apr 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Location: vice city, california

Anything Lithtech is a bastard. Wink
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Tragos
PostPosted: Sat 10 Apr 2010 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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I will third that statement.... The AVP viewer is rather difficult to use. I have nothing against the lithtech talon engine, but it seems like it was a rather odd choice for AVP2 since engines like Quake 2 and Unreal where available at the time. AVP2 was a blast, though I wish it wasn't so scripted... AVP2 stills looks amazing if you run your card
s settings at the max.

I remember Blood 2 taking long to load, and running like crap on my old 450 mhz. A problem a never had with unreal or quake. Very Happy
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